With the spread of digital technology, the web, smartphones, and more, design seems to be changing rapidly, but is that really the case? Camera design hasn't changed since the days of film, and the Apple Watch still has a timeless, outdated watch shape. Has design stopped evolving? "Darwin would be angry," laughs Nicolas. Gwenael Nicolas has had a design office in Tokyo for over 20 years and answers our interviews in Japanese. He talks about the advanced aspects of Japan's systems that Japanese people don't realize. This is the final chapter of our long interview.


--Why did it take 25 years in a country with so many earthquakes?

I wonder why? (laughs) For a population of approximately 130 million in this small island nation, society can't function without eliminating waste and operating systematically. That's very advanced. In fact, people overseas don't know much about Japan. They don't realize that Japan has been running on systems like waste separation and recycling, as well as energy circulation, for a long time. The Prius was released 18 years ago. The fourth-generation Prius is already in the works. Urban development is also proceeding systematically. The Marunouchi area development was planned 15 years ago, or even longer, with an eye to the next 15 or 30 years. The buildings currently under construction are being torn down in 30 years and relocated to a new location. The recently opened C2 Metropolitan Expressway loop was likely planned more than 50 years ago. This means that a plan for the next 50 years already exists. Someone planned it and it's proceeding according to schedule. Tomorrow isn't decided now. We're ready for a new car society, but Japanese technology is still waiting for its release. Japan feels like a program society. --What about design? Compared to the cutting-edge advances in urban planning and technology, the field of design lags behind. This is true for my office as well. Despite our extensive technological and social background, we design based on technologies already available. That's not the kind of design I aspire to. Japan has such an incredible background, so I'd like to use it to create new designs. However, for now, everything is on hold.

--Do you think Japan has a bright future?

Essentially, Tokyo is like an operating system (OS). Just like a computer, it can be upgraded. That system might sound scary, but I think it's an ideal, dynamic system that eliminates waste. Tokyo is unrelated to politics, with a strong society and a solid corporate and human layer. Its strong core means it's fine. It can respond flexibly to change. In Europe, there's a separation between things that change and things that don't, between static and dynamic. The cultures of each country are increasingly intertwined, making it difficult to see the core. It's difficult to respond flexibly with a single system. In that respect, Japan is very futuristic. It's very systematic.

--Perhaps it's because Japan has developed since the modern era by striving for efficiency?

Everything is run by systems, as exemplified by convenience stores, and various functions are concentrated here, leading to the disappearance of stores on city streets. But from now on, convenience store systems will spread throughout cities. I think streets will be formed using this system. Infrastructure like electricity, telephones, and banks will also be operated by this system. Mitsubishi electric cars will be on the roads, and corporate groups like Mitsubishi apartments and banks will systematically develop the city. This is the future of Tokyo. This may reshape the shape of old shopping streets. It would be extremely efficient. Tokyo's problems are the high cost of land and the car traffic. I already have ideas to solve these problems, and I'm currently exploring where to present them.

--Do you also design cars?

I'm currently designing cars because I want to make a short movie about Tokyo of the future.

A Static Real World

--What is new design?

Today, we live in the age of recycled design, and most things are just rehashes of old things. We reuse things because we don't understand new things, but that's just stagnating. Darwin would be angry. We should throw away what we don't need and move on to the next thing. Let it go. Digital camera technology has evolved dramatically, but they're all Leica-shaped. I want to create a new type. Chopsticks and forks were born out of cultural differences, but in this age of openness, I want to create something that transcends specific cultures. Looking at Art Deco designs from the 1930s, those designs were born because a change was needed in those times. When we say new, we don't just mean aesthetically pleasing; we need designs that change people's lives.

--Does this mean that our society has changed, with digital technology deeply ingrained in our lives, and we need designs that respond to that?

I feel like digital technology is stealing people's time. The time we spend interacting with digital technology now takes up time we don't have before, and it means we can't do more. I don't think we've yet to see the positive or negative impact that the digitalization of society has on people's lives. People read books for study or relaxation, but now information is coming in at a rapid pace. We don't have time to absorb, digest, and digest this information; as soon as we read one news item, the next one arrives. People are unable to digest information, and reality is shifting to the virtual world, making the real world seem to stand still.

--Has the real world come to a halt?

The virtual world feels like it's changing a lot, but in reality, nothing has changed. You may feel like you have a lot of friends on Facebook, but in reality, you don't have that many. Making friends requires a lot of effort, like hanging out with friends, but the virtual world is just convenient and intangible. What did you eat? What did you see? It's like you ate something, not knowing what it was. We've lost all the effort that was previously necessary in life, and I think that's very scary. The evolution of digital technology has only shortened time. You can find what you're looking for quickly, but it's no longer possible to find what you're really looking for. The results are displayed instantly, but the process is hidden. Creators can find good designs one after another, but it's difficult to find what you want. It's becoming a world of copy-paste editing. I believe my job is to create designs that people will want to copy and imitate.


■Interview & text: Tatsuya Noda

--Read the interview "Asking Gwenael Nicolas about the future of Japanese design" from the beginning.