This New Year, fashion designer Shuko Nakazato's pop-up shop, "Welcome to ISETAN Space Branch - Our Future Department Store," opened on the second floor of the Isetan Shinjuku Main Building (TOKYO Kaihoku) in Tokyo. Nakazato won the Grand Prix in the Jewelry category at ITS (International Talent Support), Europe's largest fashion competition, in 2014, becoming the first Japanese to do so. She is currently a doctoral student at the Department of Fine Arts, Faculty of Fine Arts, Tokyo University of the Arts. Even in fashion, she exudes a strong message and individuality, making her a force to be reckoned with. This time, Mari Terasawa, buyer at TOKYO Kaihoku, where the pop-up shop is located, and who met Nakazato about a year before she won the ITS award, engages in a passionate conversation on the theme of "fashion." The two first met at the graduation project presentation for the "coconogacco" school, organized by Yoshikazu Yamagata. It seems that Nakazato had an interest in "department stores" even back then...

■To be honest, when I first saw Nakazato's work I thought, "What is this?"

--I heard that Nakazato and Terasawa met at the "coconogacco" graduation project presentation. What impression did you have?

Terasawa Mari (hereinafter, Terasawa): In March 2013, I was asked by Yamagata Yoshikazu of Written (Afterwards) to critique the graduation projects of "coconogacco". Nakazato was one of the graduates at that time, and to be honest, when I saw Nakazato's work there I thought, "What is this?" (laughs)

Nakazato Noriko (hereinafter, Nakazato): At the time, I was working on the "Department Store Project". To create a fictional department store, we presented footage of the land where the store was to be built being blown up with dynamite, a shopping catalog featuring fictional products, and accessories and clothing lined with connected faces. There was also a video explaining the products.

--It seems fateful that you two have been presenting works with a department store theme since you first met.

Nakazato: Ever since I was a child, I've been drawn to department stores, a place to display finished products and where you can buy anything you want. My high school was in Shinjuku, so I'd often stop by Isetan on my way home from school. At the time, I thought, "Isetan has an incredible energy when it comes to proposals."

Terasawa: When you presented your graduation project about three years ago, I thought that Nakazato's work was eccentric and interesting, but as someone who has a place to sell things, I thought he was the furthest thing from the creative endeavor of "selling things," or in other words, the kind of creative endeavor that can be turned into a living. In my comments, I suggested that as an artist, she should make the most of the uniqueness of her ideas.

■ I thought that working with Nakazato-san would definitely help shift her way of thinking.

--The two of you are currently running a pop-up shop titled "Welcome to the ISETAN Space Branch - Our Future Department Store" at the Isetan Shinjuku store until January 12th of this year. What changes occurred before you decided to "sell your products in a department store?"

Nakazato: Since launching my brand "NORIKONAKAZATO" in the fall/winter of 2014, I've had many opportunities to think about how to display my work so that people will pick it up. I value the unique worldview of my work, so sometimes I feel that holding an exhibition, inviting buyers to come and place an order, isn't the right approach.

For example, I once exhibited my brand's clothes in the same lighting and on the same racks as other brands at a group exhibition. When I observed the situation, I noticed that most people didn't reach for the clothes on my rack. At that moment, I suddenly realized, "Ah, if I continue this way, I won't make any progress." In other words, the things I was showing and the place where I was showing them didn't match. I thought to myself, "If everyone's works can be touched at the exhibition venue, the NORIKO NAKAZATO products can only be seen through a window at the building opposite, using a telescope." I realized that we needed to think about how we displayed our works to that extent.

Terasawa: For the past few years, I've personally felt the limitations of department stores' traditional approach of selling "things" and receiving payment from customers. Perhaps it's time to shift to something different, a new approach? I felt that one way to break through this vague feeling might be to make proposals that don't simply "attach value to things," and I thought that Nakazato could help bring about this shift in thinking. It was around that time that I learned that Nakazato-san would be using a VR system in collaboration with Psychic VR Lab at the two-person exhibition "ISLAND IS ISLAND" held last year with photographer Kobayashi Kenta.

■ Thinking about fashion and digital led me to space

Nakazato: Around the end of August last year, Terasawa-san approached me asking if we could do something at Isetan over the New Year holidays with the keywords "fashion and digital." Over the past few years, you could say I've been searching for a balance to make my own expression more accessible. So, since this was a time when I was thinking about trying to translate my own expression into something more accessible, I thought I'd give it a try.

Terasawa: From there, the Isetan team and Nakazato-san held about seven or eight brainstorming sessions. During one of those brainstorming sessions, the idea of "wouldn't it be great if we could take Isetan to space?" came up, and I feel like the project just really took off from there.

Nakazato: When expressing "fashion x digital," I don't see my role as a designer to propose fashion made possible by so-called new technology, such as using luminous textiles. Rather than competing head-on with technology, I believe it's important to propose "tricky" ideas from a different angle. I wanted to express an intuitive feeling, something like "wow!" or "interesting!" That's why I think my approach is a bit of a waste of talent, or maybe a bit "off." I believe that deliberately messing around in a proper setting can help reveal the true essence of things.

■Fashion Must Always End with Positive Emotions

- Listening to you, Nakazato, I sense a strong passion for "expression" and "communication." Why is that?

Nakazato: I'm interested in all the "moments of contact" that relate to humans. I'm always looking for that kind of contact, and I believe fashion makes that possible. One thing that I think sets fashion apart from art is that it must always end with a positive emotion. Fashion doesn't exist if people think, "It's dirty..." or "I don't want to touch it..." Positive emotions, like "cute!" or "cool!", are born at the point of contact between fashion and people. Even if art doesn't have what we call "beauty," its value can be understood within a context. So, expressions that lead to positive emotions aren't everything.

In that sense, I think that considering the point of contact between fashion and people means considering how to communicate it. From that perspective, department stores are both physical places of purchase and sale, and a place where fashion and people come into contact.

Terasawa: "Selling things" is both simple and difficult. For example, I think that when people hold a certain item in their hands, they are moved emotionally, and a sense of empathy is born, which leads to a purchase.

The TOKYO Kaihoku project, which I oversee, was born in March 2013, when the Isetan Shinjuku store was remodeled with the concept of a fashion museum. I think the role I play at Isetan Shinjuku, which has both traditional and contemporary aspects, overlaps to some extent with Nakazato's role in fashion.
I think my role is not just to sell things, but to propose values that lead beyond that.

I think fashion's approach of presenting Nakazato's values has potential and promise. Right now, I feel like there are still a lot of things that are unclear, and that I'm facing difficult challenges. Perhaps now is a time of transition. I feel like the time has come to break away from preconceived notions and routines.

Continued in Part 2: "Nakazato Shuko x Terasawa Mari: 'The love for people that can only come from fashion. This is important.'"

Shigematsu Yuka