Fashion designer Nakazato Shuko and Isetan Shinjuku's Tokyo Liberation Zone buyer, Terazawa Mari, met about three years ago at a graduation project presentation at Coconogacco. These two fashion lovers talk about the future of fashion and what the difference is between seriousness and non-seriousness.


■Space is full of dreams. That's why we made everyone's "want to see" a reality.

--The concept for this project was to open an Isetan branch in space, and space is an unknown entity in itself.

Nakazato Shuko (hereinafter, Nakazato): Space is simply full of dreams. It also opens up possibilities. So many people cooperated with the planning for this project, and even Egyptian archaeologist Yoshimura Sakuji appeared on the cookie dressed like Ebisu. He was accompanied by a group of sphinxes (laughs). We even borrowed a spacesuit from JAXA. With my old part-time job, Aoyama TWINS, I was able to create something that would make people chuckle and tickle their hearts. It felt like we were all working together to create something that everyone wanted to see.

Terasawa Mari (hereafter, Terasawa): It felt like everyone was working not just because it was their job, but because they were passionate, thinking, "Something interesting might be waiting for us!" I think there is potential in that kind of process. I think Nakazato has the talent to make people feel like there's something beyond that.

■Feeling a love for people in fashion

- Nakazato, you use the title "fashion designer." Is there something you're particular about?

Nakazato: I'm often introduced as an artist, but I'm particular about being a "fashion designer." When I say "fashion designer," I mean "someone who proposes forms of interaction for all human beings." I believe that it's precisely because I work in fashion that I have something to offer people.

For Spring/Summer 2016, J.W. Anderson wore something like plastic wrap around his legs. It feels like fashion can force people into a certain way. I think this ability to respond to people in both serious and casual ways is a perspective on humanity that only fashion can have. I feel love for people. Love for people that only fashion can have. This is important.

■ It's because you know what it means to be "serious" that you can be "unserious"

--How would you describe in words the feeling of facing this aggressive fashion?

Nakazato: It's about challenging the absolute beauty of fashion with a "hetare" (incompetent) attitude. "Hetare" is about overturning fashion by presenting an aesthetic that is like a complete reversal of fashion's ideals.

I also think there may be beauty in "unseriousness." My thinking is that there may be "unseriousness" beneath the surface of a "sense of ease." Rather than the dichotomy of "mode" and "anti-mode," I imagine "irresponsibility" as something that appears unexpectedly on a completely different level. So, the "avant-garde" in contrast to "mode"—or, to put it simply, the rebellious spirit of Comme des Garçons—seems different from "irresponsibility."

If I were to imagine "irresponsibility," in the 1990s, it would be like the atmosphere of BLES, where people thought, "We care about our friends, and we're going to have an exhibition here while drinking." So, "irresponsibility" is similar to "fashion." If it were just "irresponsible," it wouldn't move people. I believe that fashion needs "fashion," "irresponsibility," and "elegance."

Terasawa: Similar to that are "humor," "intelligence," and "intelligence." Humor isn't meant to offend or hurt anyone, and humor can't be born without intelligence.

So "frivolous" can't be born unless you know what "serious" means. A person's individuality comes out in how they shift from "serious" to "frivolous." I think that's their aesthetic sense.

- In any case, since one's position in fashion is determined by one's aesthetic sense, it seems like a very human way of behaving.

Terasawa: Also, when I see fashion from people whose love for others is connected to their expression, I can really feel the passion and love. If there's no love involved, it feels like an industrial product. I think the role of TOKYO Kaihoku is to propose "fashion" to customers.

The emotional feeling you get when you buy something. Even though it's a physical product, I believe in the power of things that are made with emotion, and I want to work with people who can share that. I believe that fashion with a story will make people happier, and that it will be more useful in the future than fashion that simply boasts functionality, such as keeping out the cold. I believe that from now on, people with strong feelings and people who value their senses will be able to work well together.

■I want ISETAN Space Branch to be "something fun" for someone.

Nakazato: I think that this project, "Welcome to ISETAN Space Branch - Our Future Department Store," will also make many people think "Ah, that's amazing!"

Terasawa: One thing I think is that this project holds some kind of hint for the future. About three years ago, when I saw Nakazato's graduation project, I thought, "I don't understand it at all, but it's somehow fun." Just like that, I believe that if you savor the way you think, the ideas, and the realizations, you will find something. And I think Nakazato is the kind of person who gives you those kinds of hints.

■Even if they don't buy it, I'd be happy if my work became someone's "source of inspiration."

--What image do you envision for yourself in the future? Nakazato: What's important to me is being a source of inspiration. Even if people don't buy my work, I hope they'll feel something from the concept and spirit behind it. I often buy these kinds of things (horse watches), but they're small, even though they're watches. The texture of a horse's tail and body is different, so I think, "Why go to such lengths?" and start thinking about how I could express this horse watch as something different. From there, ideas for my next proposals are born. I want my work to be a source of inspiration like that. In my own home, I'd like to create an aquarium catalog, and I'm currently interested in Dubai (laughs). I'd like to expand into Dubai within the next two years. In the Arab world, they seem to hold hawks in their hands like jewelry. I want to challenge aesthetics that we don't understand. I also want to strengthen my business side. In reality, I could devote 5000% of my energy to creating my work, but when I become absorbed in it, I lose sight of the people around me. That's why I think it's important to have the ability to look at the big picture with 80% of your power. With that in mind, I've recently been thinking that NORIKONAKAZATO isn't just a place for self-expression; by looking at how the brand behaves from a bird's-eye view, various possibilities will become apparent.

[Event Information]
Title: Welcome to ISETAN Space Branch - Our Future Department Store -
Venue: Isetan Shinjuku Main Building, 2nd Floor = Center Park/TOKYO Liberation Zone
Dates: December 26, 2015 - January 12, 2016

Back to the first half, "Nakazato Shuko x Terazawa Mari: 'When we thought about fashion and digital, we ended up in space.'" Back to the first half, "Nakazato Shuko x Terazawa Mari: 'When we thought about fashion and digital, we ended up in space.'"

Shigematsu Yuka