J: A Mac?
H: Right. Yeah, I guess no one knows anything about the OS9 era anymore. The Apple fans lining up at stores in Ginza these days probably don't even know what a Mac desktop is. (Laughs) It'd be interesting to know more about the origins.
J: What was the first Mac you used, Hajime?
H: The 512K, the model before the Macintosh Plus. 1984, a long time ago. For someone like Jonio, Vivienne Westwood might be a part of their routine, but for me, designing is a routine because I first designed on a personal computer (PC). Nowadays, it's common to do both music and design on a PC, but when I first started, I had to keep saying, "I designed this on a PC," and "It was a Macintosh computer." Even so, people would say, "It's CG," and I had to make excuses like, "No, CG is done on workstations and minicomputers, and I do graphic design on PCs. I use PCs for that." (laughs) The Monaco font, which gives this work its title, was included when Mac monitors were still monochrome and bitmapped, along with other fonts like Geneva and London.

J: Were the font names names of cities?

H: Yes. Then (the OS) became Kanji TALK, and TOKYO and OSAKA were added, making it a total of 13 typefaces. Susan Kare, a star designer of the early Macintosh, single-handedly designed everything from bitmap fonts to the trash can icon and startup screen.

J: What an incredible person.

H: She was charismatic, wasn't she? That's why none of the bitmap fonts or icons from OS9 were ported to OS10. Steve Jobs and Stephen Gary Wozniak were inducted, but Susan Kayr was shielded. She's younger than me, but I don't even know what she's doing now.

J: For me, Vivienne Westwood was, of course, heavily influenced by punk and related trends, but even before Vivienne Westwood, there was Nobu (Kitamura Nobuhiko) of HYSTERIC GLAMOUR. I'm originally from Gunma, and when I was in high school, the first store opened in Ashikaga, Tochigi Prefecture. Until then, DC brands and the like only had logos on their clothes, so I wasn't really interested in fashion, but when I saw clothes that mixed music, I was blown away by how amazing they were. From there, I became interested in fashion, and my design influences were COMME des GARÇONS and Martin Margiela, who came out around 1990.
H: What's fashion like in Tokyo these days?
J: Recently, there's been a movement in Tokyo among the younger generation in their 20s and 30s to communicate on a global level, similar to how we did in Harajuku. It's not quite at the Paris level yet, though.
H: Is that part of the trend in street fashion, like T-shirts and the like?
J: No, it's the same as us; it's more of a mix of street and fashion. It's a bit of a tricky category, though. It might be connected to the movement I mentioned earlier, to establish a new genre in Paris.
H: What kind of brands, for example?
J: Lately, I'd say G.V.G.V. They've caught on with young people in Japan, and if they can hold exhibitions in Paris and figure out how to make it in the future, I think they could hold a show and gain recognition. The kids around them are interesting, too. I'm getting more opportunities to talk with people in their 20s, and they're a generation that looks at my clothes without preconceptions, so I'm getting closer to them. I wouldn't say that anyone is particularly interesting, but I feel like we're connecting again. Before I knew it, they might be my child's age.

H: How old are you now, Jonio?

J: I'm 45 this year. I'm in the same generation as the mothers of the younger generation. There were people like Hajime and my predecessors, and of course there was (Rei) Kawakubo, and I'm right in the middle of that generation. In between them were Nobu and Hiroshi, and since I'm familiar with Kawakubo's style, I feel like I'm in a position to pass it on. Communicating with young people, I feel like there's a lot of hope for the Japanese fashion design scene. It sounds a bit old-man-ish, though (laughs).

H: It certainly sounds old-man-ish, but (laughs). That's how the seeds of what we started in the '80s are being passed on.

J: A few years ago, Japanese fashion became popular and attracted attention overseas, starting with Paris. Compared to then, (Japanese fashion) has now become commonplace and has become established. Japan is seen as having a very high level from the global perspective, so it feels like more and more people will be spreading that knowledge in concrete ways. Level doesn't matter; initial impulse or even just power is fine. I think Tokyo is the only place in Asia that can do that.

H: It's true that right now, Japan may be the only place that has that potential.

J: There is hope for Japan.

(End)

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