Hearst Fujingaho's ELLE Japon magazine is holding its second "Women in Society" event, primarily targeting working women in their late 20s to 40s. Following on from Part 1 of the first half, we'll have a double talk with the magazine's publisher, Akiko Mori, and ELLE Content Department Editor-in-Chief, Kanako Sakai, about the essentials and environments for women to thrive at work.


■ Should women "aim for the top"?

--Generally, when people reach managerial positions, they're expected to demonstrate masculine leadership. How should women in managerial positions demonstrate leadership? Also, will the form of leadership change?

Mori: It must be difficult if you can't separate your feminine side, capable of being considerate and the cool side that companies expect from managers. When a staff member comes crying to me for advice, I'm torn between wanting to say "It's okay" and thinking, "If we do that, the organization won't function." I think you'll face these kinds of worries many times once you become a manager.

Sakai: I think there's a struggle between controlling your subordinates and fulfilling the company's mission. If you don't provide clear feedback on how to respond to the mission you've been given, everything will fall apart. I think you need to do that properly.

--You two overcame various conflicts to become managers. Could you talk about one of the messages promoted by the speakers at this event, "Aim for the Top!"?

Mori: For example, when I talk to young people hoping to become editors, they often say, "I don't want to be number one, but I'm OK with being number two."

Sakai: If you value work-life balance, that's one way of working, isn't it?

Mori: Yes. But I think it's good to aim for the top at least once. The sense of accomplishment is proportional to the amount of hardship. It's difficult to achieve a sense of accomplishment without hardship. As a working woman, I think it's very important to excel in the job you've chosen. I believe that if you can grow despite the struggles and conflicts, your life will be richer.

Sakai: Actually, the job I most wanted was fashion director. So, rather than being the head of an organization, my goal was to become the head of a job and take on various challenges. Since becoming editor-in-chief, the scope of my work has expanded greatly. When I achieve goals one by one with my colleagues, I feel an indescribable sense of accomplishment.

Mori: People can't rise above the level of their goals. For example, I don't think there are many people who become president if they aim to become a section manager. So I think it's wonderful to set high goals and be able to say, "I'll give it a try" when an opportunity arises. Japanese people tend to be humble, but being reserved isn't always a virtue. ■An Environment Where Working Women Can Work Vibrantly

--What should we aim for in order to create an environment where women can work comfortably?

Mori: Unlike men, women sometimes become wives and mothers, and their bodies change more dramatically than men. Looking at the long-term horizon leading up to retirement, if an organization were to tell a woman, "You have to be 100% all the time," I think that would be the end of it. I think organizations should be thinking about utilizing human resources over the long term, and not expecting results or accomplishments in the short term of a year or two. Conversely, if women can utilize work-life balance systems to reduce the financial burden on organizations when they are unable to perform well, and if both parties can communicate effectively, I think a variety of work styles will become possible.

Sakai: ELLE has a concept called "Open your Appetite!" ELLE is like a bible for women to live the life they want. The issue of how one person lives their life may seem small now, but if it grows, I think it could change society as a whole.

--Finally, please give us some advice for women on how to become the "shining talent" that society will need in the long term.

Mori: First of all, do everything you can and don't hold back. If you slack off at work, you won't grow and you won't be evaluated. If you're conscious of the company's overall goals, there will be work that needs to be done. I would say do it with all your might. If you work hard with all your might, those around you will surely support you even if there comes a time when you can't give 100%. If you hold back, that's when the consequences will come back to haunt you. You can tell them that.

Sakai: Furthermore, I think you need to find out what you want to do and what you like. To become a sought-after talent, you need to be a woman with high aspirations and who knows what you can throw yourself into with all your heart and soul.


--Read this interview from the beginning.